Episode #243: Dr. Zina Berry – A Discussion About Burnout, Pain, and the Future of Ergonomic Loupes

Intro: Welcome to the Stress-Free Dentist Podcast. I’m your host, Dr. Eric Block. As always, I want to inspire, entertain, and educate you on the best tools and technologies out there. My goal is to help make your practice and career more profitable, efficient, and, most importantly, more enjoyable.

And check out all of my nonfiction and children’s books on Amazon, and check out thestressfreedentist.com  for any upcoming events. If you’re feeling like you’re a dental professional that’s burnt out, or you just feel stuck or want to get to that next level, visit the International Academy of Dental Life Coaches or www.iadlc.com,  and we’ll get you matched up with a life coach that understands dentistry.

Dr. Eric Block: Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode. And today I’m joined by Dr. Zina Berry. Zina, welcome to the show.

Dr. Zina Berry: Thank you. I’m so happy to be here, Dr. Block. It’s a pleasure.

Dr. Eric Block: Zina is the founder of Z-Loupes, which—uh, we chatted a couple of weeks ago—it’s super awesome what you’re up to. You’ve become an entrepreneur, you’re solving a problem for dental professionals, and I want to get into all that. But first, Zina, how did you even first get involved in dentistry?

Dr. Zina Berry: You know, as a child, uh, I wanted to first be a, uh, newscaster. However, my mother threw me into a lot of art and creative classes. And, uh, I quickly decided I wanted to be something of an artist. And my mother told me, well, artists don’t really become famous and really don’t make money until after they’re passed on. So that quickly became something so fast. I knew as a child I wanted to do something in present.

So actually, um, dentistry found me pretty early. I went to my dentist—I think I was about 11 or 12—you know, back during the day when you could actually go by yourself. So I took the bus. I remember getting outta school and going down, and I looked up at the dentist and I thought, you know, I wanna be a dentist. And he said, "Nah, you know, I think you’d be better off being a hairdresser or school teacher."

And I was like, no, I’m gonna be a dentist. So my 11-year-old self decided I was gonna pursue that dream from that point. And I remember going back to school and doing the science projects. I used to—I remember cutting up the anatomy of teeth in, like, the 10th grade and, you know, little things that actually, you know, took me to the next step, which was the college interest exams and taking those and being successful and really starting diving into what did it really take to become a dentist.

It was an idea at first—it was attractive at first, right? But then you had to put the work in to really get there. And I was like, oh, this is serious business. So I really, uh, it just was a journey that I really enjoyed after I got into the work. Uh, not to say it was easy, ’cause it was not, but definitely, looking back on it, I’m glad that I made the decision very quickly on.

Dr. Eric Block: And where did you go to college and then dental school?

Dr. Zina Berry: Um, so I went to Fisk University, which is in Nashville, Tennessee. And, uh, the purpose of me going to Fisk is because Meharry Medical College School of Dentistry is right across the street. So, um, I segued myself right on over across the street and, uh, got into the dental school, um, started that process, you know, right after my senior year.

I had the opportunity to get in my junior year—they had a special program where you could skip your, um, senior year, go into dental school, get your degree—and I saw a lot of students that didn’t make it in four years. And I was like, guess what? I’m gonna enjoy my senior year and then go into dental school. And it worked perfectly because I did get out in four years, and that’s what I wanted.

It wasn’t easy, as you know. Dental school is a teaching lesson of life. It was a journey.

Dr. Eric Block: So you actually decided this journey early on from, you said, when you were 11 or 12 years old when you first, uh, when you were with your, you know, childhood dentist. I actually hear that story a lot, especially for those that had braces, and that was kinda their first introduction to dentistry.

And you kind of—you continued it all the way through. Now, after dental school, did you do your residency? Did you associate? Did you open up your own practice? What happened there?

Dr. Zina Berry: So, you know, I must have thought I was bold back then when I graduated from dental school because I decided that I was gonna go right into private practice. Um, so one of my, uh, classmates actually went to college with—and she actually was in medical school becoming a radiologist—from Ohio. And she had a dentist; her dentist was retiring and leaving the practice. And so she, um, asked me if I was interested. So I actually went home with her back to Middletown.

But unfortunately, by the time we got there, the dentist that was retiring unfortunately had passed. So the surviving wife—the practice was available—and I actually bought it right out of dental school and, uh, started my journey there. It was a teaching process for sure. I didn’t know exactly what I was doing, and I definitely failed that first time out because that was a lot to undertake in regards to being a new dentist, coming out, being able to have the business savviness to be able to start a practice and continue it.

Dr. Zina Berry: The previous practice had some struggle problems, and those are the things that I couldn’t overcome. So I had to pivot. I had to, uh, go back a step or two, and I decided to work at a community health center. I moved to Chattanooga, Tennessee, and I did that for three years.

And then that journey took me to Syracuse, New York, where I continued to work in public health for a couple reasons. One, it gave me the opportunity to hone my skill as a dentist. I was known as the—uh—passionately known as the “extraction doctor” that they liked to passionately call me at the health center. And, uh, the second one, I had a lot of debt, and I needed to unload that debt as much as possible. And the public health service department allowed us to do that.

And then third, it taught me the people skills—how to get along with staff, you know, leadership opportunities, and patient management. And you had to learn a lot of that pretty quickly because there were always patients to see. And so you had to balance that. You had to figure out how not to burn yourself out, even though you’re a young, eager dentist that’s ready to do any and everything. But you also have to cut off, because you have to understand that you have to survive on the other end.

Dr. Eric Block: Can you go back to—you said after dental school, you went with a friend and you visited a practice. The previous dentist had passed away. What was that like? Was the practice just dormant, and was it hemorrhaging patients for a long time, and then you had to kind of go in and rebuild it? What was that process like?

Dr. Zina Berry: So, I’m glad you asked that. It’s funny because—let me go back and, you know, kind of turn the dial back of time. So one of the things I discovered right away is that there were patients being seen and insurance companies being charged, but the data or documentation in the chart wasn’t always available. So that became concerning to me.

So yes, there were struggles because of lack of documentation, insurance duplication of charges, the patients being upset because they were like, “Well, I wasn’t seen, but my insurance company paid.” So there was an uphill battle as a young dentist that I had no knowledge of how to overcome.

So that’s why I quickly, you know, decided to change that because I knew those were things that I couldn’t get over—the angry patients I couldn’t satisfy enough for the insurance company.

Dr. Zina Berry: And I just felt like I didn’t have enough tools at that point to be able to make it. So I decided to close down. And like I said, I joined public health in Chattanooga, Tennessee, and I decided to just restart my journey, basically.

And I did go back into private practice, but of course this would be after several years of doing public service so that I had the savviness as far as speed and efficiency and skills. With that now, I felt like I was in a better position to go out and try practice. And this time, I was successful.

So I purchased a practice in Syracuse, New York, back in 1999, and I retired last year. And it was a great picture.

Dr. Eric Block: Now tell me—first of all, you really just never know what a practice is like until you get in, you know, under the hood and become, you know, an owner or partner. And not only did you find out that practice was probably losing patients because of the deceased dentist, but there were a lot of things going on that you didn’t agree with, right?

It just shows you that sometimes you just don’t know, even if you did your due diligence. So it’s hard enough for a dentist to go into a situation that’s, you know, even great, but you went into a situation that was obviously not a pleasant one, and you got out of there. So, you know, good for you for seeing that something wasn’t right.

Now, tell me about—what were the pros and cons of working in, like, a community or public health center? You’ve had a lot of experience there. I personally have only been in the private practice setting. Tell me about, you know, life in a community health center.

Dr. Zina Berry: Um, rapid is pretty fast. They expect—so in public health, they have what’s called encounters. So you get these sheets of the patients that are coming through, and they pretty much want you to do one-by-one procedures. And it’s just the way the reimbursement process was on the other end.

For me, I, you know, I challenged a little bit of that because I didn’t feel as though the patient should come back and have an amalgam restoration on 19 but also needs a DO on tooth number 20. So I decided that if they needed quadrant dentistry, I was gonna perform quadrant dentistry.

However, in dental school, as you know, they teach tooth-by-tooth dentistry—not necessarily quadrant dentistry. So the pattern of doing tooth-by-tooth dentistry really resonates very well in the public health sector. And until you can do multiple procedures, you start to recognize that you’re doing a better service for the patient.

Dr. Zina Berry: You’re also doing a better service for yourself because you’re being more efficient in the procedures and you reduce the chances of the patient going into a situation where they’re worse. So they have a cavity—you fix the cavity—rather than it becoming now.

So it taught me speed, it taught me efficiency, it taught me leadership abilities because I had to lead a team. I had to manage the patients. The patient base isn’t always nice. And what I mean by that is that sometimes they don’t understand the value of what they’re getting.

Secondly, they are very defensive sometimes, and you have to take the time to teach them along the way. But at the same time, you’ve got 30 minutes to get this procedure done. So that’s why it teaches you that efficiency, because you’re like, “Ms. Jane, let me say, you know, I’m glad you came in today. This is what we’re doing. I’m gonna talk you through the procedure while I’m doing it.”

So I’m actually giving the injection and she’s not really understanding what I’m doing—but I’m already done with that. “Oh, you’re numb now.” So I just—I’m gonna talk it through. So doing those kinds of things helps build the confidence of the patient base. And then after a while, they come and want to  see you. And then that’s when you know you’ve made a difference.

Dr. Eric Block: And you—you mentioned, and congratulations—that you recently retired. What happened there? Why did you choose— you seem very young—why did you choose to retire when you did? Was it because you were—and I do want to get into this—but regarding Z-Loupes, was it because you had this second career lined up with Z-Loupes? Or what was your reason for retiring?

Dr. Zina Berry: Uh, a couple of things. One, I was burnt out. I’m gonna be totally transparent with you. I think COVID did a number for me. You know, it was very hard during the COVID timeframe in upstate New York with trying to figure out when we were gonna go back to work. You know, we weren’t allowed to go back and see patients.

So it was very tough with that. It was tough to bring the employees back to work. The payments that they were getting were more than, you know, what you were paying them. And it really has not really bounced back in regards to our career track in upstate New York.

Hygienists are very hard to find. Dental assistants are very hard to find. So after that, it became very difficult to do the same things you did pre-COVID. So with that, I started to feel—not actually services, because we were so far behind—I felt like you couldn’t catch up.

So there was a lot of anxiety, a lot of, uh, you know, fear about, you know, am I doing a good job with the patient? Am I really reducing their pain, or am I subjecting them to more infection by, you know, the unknown? So that was very turbulent timing.

Dr. Eric Block: Now tell me all about Z-Loupes. What are Z-Loupes? Why did you start it? Let’s—let’s start with your whole second career here as an entrepreneur.

Dr. Zina Berry: A few years ago, I said, let me see if I can do something to enhance any of the loupes in order to make them better or to make them in such a way where I installed my own things. So with that, I started the journey to create a situation where I was gonna have a lighter situation with the loupes. I was gonna have a little different option for the battery pack.

And then lastly, the COVID process taught me about infection control. I mean, as dentists, we know the importance of it—don’t get me wrong—but after COVID, we really understood the fact of how we were in the first line of fire to be able to get the infection because we were in the mouth. So with that, I was like, you know what? We need to do a better job at having infection control processes around the loupes that we’re wearing.

Dr. Zina Berry: And up until then, we didn’t have a real answer to that. And I did—I interviewed about 60 practitioners, and they’re called Maven interviews. I did this through a program called Launch New York. And with that, I was able to talk to dentists, I was able to talk to medical doctors, orthopedists, I was able to talk to jewelers and engineers that did small product development.

And one of the things that came across from those in the medical field was that—“How do you clean your glasses? Where do you store them?” And when we started getting into those kinds of questions, they were like, “Yeah, you know, I wipe ’em down. I try my best, but you know, sometimes it causes cracks, crazing, and I’m really careful with that part.” And so there was no real answer to it.

Dr. Zina Berry: And we were in a compromised situation when it came to the infection control, and creating the adjuster control answered this. And I saw that pain point. So now, we can make sure we’re not touching them. I wanted to make them lighter—they’re lighter. I gave another option for the battery pack.

Not only do you have a waist battery pack that you clip on to wear with a belt, you have a neck battery pack that doesn’t need a belt, and it gives you the four to six hours of that power that you need.

And I guess the biggest thing that I wanted practitioners to have from Z-Loupes is the battery pack lift. And what I mean by that—when you get our kit, you get both battery packs. So right there, that solves everything of you not having the battery ready and available. But we have a subscription model that allows you to have a replacement battery in 24 months if something goes wrong. So you just send it back, we send you another one. You never have to worry about living outside of our ecosystem.

Dr. Eric Block: Now, in your career and with the dentists that you interviewed, did you notice a pattern of pain? You know, personally, I had—and I suffered from—a tremendous amount of back and neck and trapezius pain on my left side. And when you’re in pain, you’re not happy. No one is happy, and it’s hard to enjoy life and work and all that goes along with it when you’re in pain.

Was that one of your reasons for starting Z-Loupes as well?

Dr. Zina Berry: Absolutely. Absolutely. So when I talk about my dental assistant, I battled with these loupes all the time. She would always, um, push ’em up for me, because I would have a habit of—when I’m working—eventually I’d just want to slide ’em up, and she’d pop my hand. And then we would stop, and she would adjust my loupes for me.

And with that, that’s when it became known to me that I was really straining and doing a lot of work trying to see the object—even though the magnifiers work—but they’re in a fixed position. So I’m trying to look and see and come closer to it.

So yes, I experienced neck and back misalignment. And my chiropractor was like, “You know, you dentists are the best patients because you all have the same problems.” And the muscular problems that we suffer as dentists is true. And if you go across the United States, you’ll find most dentists that are 50 years of age or older have had some kind of pain associated with wearing loupes.

Dr. Eric Block: Yeah, I was actually in my thirties, and I had a left labral tear. And I just—for 10 years—had pain because my left hand is my retracting arm. And by the end of the day, my left trap would just be killing me. And, you know, for sure loupes help.

But I made some changes too. I actually stand now—I don’t sit anymore.

Dr. Zina Berry: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Eric Block: I’m sitting right now, but in my back office and in my dental office, I stand as well. And I’m just very in control of the patient’s head. I move them where I need to move them, and I don’t sacrifice my neck or back anymore. And just these little changes really helped me.

And I actually don’t have any more pain. I’m also constantly stretching throughout the day, and I’m always—mm-hmm—some sun salutations with yoga, and it just really helps me with my neck and back.

Are you finding, with Z-Loupes and just in general, that people can have less pain?

Dr. Zina Berry: Yeah. What I find is, like I said, the loupes are a lot lighter. Things are made in a miniature fashion, and the adjuster control doesn’t have a whole lot of weight at all—and it’s on the side.

I find that the loupes are lighter, so yes, I don’t feel that pain. I feel like the neck pack versus the other solution, and the waist battery pack, offers another solution. So yeah, I feel like we are offering some features that help you stay in practice longer, help you to prevent having that neck and back misalignment, keep you safe with infection control, and also make sure that you’re not contaminating any other processes—like touching the patient, maybe touching your glasses, and then having to clean them or use harsh chemicals to try to get, you know, blood or anything else off the loupes.

Now, you have a way of not ever touching it so that you can be rest assured that your loupes are safe—and you’re safe.

Dr. Eric Block: Tell me about the fact that Z-Loupes is female-founded.

Dr. Zina Berry: Yeah, so, you know, in our profession, it has been that male-dominant—especially when you and I went to school. However, in today’s generation, it’s totally flipped. It’s about 60% females coming out of school as opposed to males.

So that switch needed to also have a switch in the way we’re making our products, in our medical devices. Our frames are smaller, our eyes are typically closer together, our PDs are smaller, so I wanted to build something that was fashion-forward, lighter in weight, and complimented the female temporals—that complimented their fashion.

So it was very easy to pick a particular frame that answered and addressed those fashions. And I have a double frame throughout optometrists, so this is a different process even from the beginning. So with that likeness, I feel like that in itself gave the females a way to be able to address some of the pains that they felt.

Dr. Zina Berry: And then the deflectors—the 45-degree ergos—that is becoming very known in the industry now, but it’s also the one thing that differentiates us between pain and being able to have longevity in practice.

So with that, obviously I adopted that really quick. I did not develop that part, as far as the 45-degree deflectors, but I made sure they’re involved in our modification process. And keeping those lightweight, making them a little bit smaller—that addresses a female’s smaller PD, the lighter frames, and then of course, the neck battery pack.

We don’t wear belts all the time, so a waist battery pack—I really did not like that wire sticking out of my lab coat, catching onto a doorknob every now and then. My battery pack was slinging across the room, and I was done with those days. So I wanted to build something that addressed what females need.

Dr. Eric Block: Love it. All right, let’s wrap up with two final questions.

Number one is: how do we find out more about what you’re up to? And you can leave an email, a phone number, a website.

And then number two: what advice would you give to the young dental professionals out there?

Dr. Zina Berry: Sure. So you can find us and join our waitlist—we have a waitlist that’s going right now for the first adopters. You can find us at z-loupes.com .

And the advice I would give to young dentists today is: be patient, learn your procedures, and become more efficient.

Dr. Eric Block: Love it. It’s so true. When you’re a young dentist—and I’ve talked to many—and they come out of the gates thinking that everything’s gonna be great when they get out of dental school, and they’re gonna be fast and making a ton of money. And then they realize that—wait a second—I no longer have that instructor over my shoulder, and they don’t have three hours anymore to do two fillings, and they get frustrated.

So I love that idea of just: be patient. I compare your first couple of years like being in the minor leagues. You know, it takes a while to get better, but you’ll get there. You just gotta keep at it.

Dr. Zina Berry: Yeah, absolutely. And I also coach some dentists as well, and when I’m coaching them, that is the one thing I’m constantly repeating to them: you have to slow it down. You cannot go out and do everything at once. One thing at a time.

So, yeah, I feel as though if they can take that one piece of advice, I think they’re gonna find themselves a little less anxiety-driven, and they’re gonna be less intimidated by the fact that they have a mountain of money to pay back in order to get over the financial barriers that are out in front of them.

Dr. Eric Block: Love it. Zina Berry, Dr. Zina Berry, thank you so much for joining us. Excellent episode.

Dr. Zina Berry: Thank you, Dr. Block. I appreciate you having me on your episode.

Speaker 1: Thanks again for listening to The Dentist Podcast, and don’t hesitate to get in touch with me at  thestressfreedentist.com.  And if you haven’t already, please subscribe on your favorite platform and leave us a review.

Until the next episode, I’m Dr. Eric Block, The Stress-Free Dentist.