Episode #237: Dr. Laura Brenner – Coaching Dentists To Be More Happy And Fulfilled

Dr. Eric Block: Welcome to the Stress-Free Dentist Podcast. I’m your host, Dr. Eric Block. As always, I want to inspire, entertain, and educate you on the best tools and technologies out there. My goal is to help make your practice and career more profitable, efficient, and most importantly, more enjoyable. And check out all of my nonfiction and children’s books on Amazon and check out thestressfreedentist.com for any upcoming events. And if you’re feeling you’re a dental professional that’s burnt out, or you just feel stuck or want to get to that next level, visit the International Academy of Dental Life Coaches or www.idlc.com

 and we’ll get you matched up with a life coach that understands dentistry.

I also wanted to thank our amazing sponsor, Ekwa Marketing. They have helped me and my practice over the years to improve with SEO and website performance.

And to find out how you can make your practice dominate in your area, go to www.ekwa.com/msmsfd to book your complimentary meeting. Again, that’s www.ekwa.com/msmsfd.

Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode. And today I’m joined by, uh, returning guest, a friend of mine, and, uh, coach extraordinaire, Dr. Laura Brenner.

Dr. Laura Brenner: Hey, going Blocky. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Eric Block: Yeah, thanks for coming back. We did our first episode, it seemed like, like 20 years ago, but it was probably about four years ago. And, um, uh, for those who don’t know, Laura Brenner, um, is a dentist. She doesn’t practice dentistry anymore. We actually met initially when we were at Tulane University. And, uh, and then I heard her on a podcast years later and I was like, wait a second. I know her. And she’s a dentist. What? So we got reacquainted and, um, Laura’s got quite the story. And now we’re actually co-founders of the IADLC, which you can see Laura’s, uh, background there, the International Academy of Dental Life Coaches. So we’re gonna get into all that stuff.

Um, Laura, just gimme a real quick intro of kind of your origin story, how you got to where you are today.

Dr. Laura Brenner: Okay. Yeah. And, and, and while I’m at it, I, I realized I just kind of look like a floating head because I’m wearing gray.

Dr. Eric Block: Yeah, you’re just a head floating around. Just the beauty of Zoom.

Dr. Laura Brenner: Floating head Zoom.

Dr. Eric Block: Backgrounds.

Dr. Laura Brenner: Yeah. So, uh, how did I get started in this? Well, you know, I, I always thought I wanted to go, um, to dental school and become a dentist. And as a kid I really liked it. And, uh, school was good. I thought it was going to be the career that was going to fulfill all of my life dreams. And then I got out into the real world and it was hard. And I knew that I just had to work through the tough times and have that grit and get better with every year that went by. And then year three hit, and it was getting better. I was getting better, but I still felt a lot of pain, a lot of anxiety, a lot of worry, um, even a little bit of depression that I hid very well from myself, ’cause I tend to be a pretty upbeat person.

Dr. Laura Brenner: Uh, I didn’t recognize that the depression was there until years later, but I just, after three years, it was like, this isn’t getting better. And that made me feel hopeless. So I thought I wanted to have a career change, and I did a couple of things to try to make that happen. But then I made lots of excuses and found lots of reasons to stay in dentistry. And it was probably the right thing for me. Even though I called those excuses, it was just fear. I couldn’t imagine ever being or doing anything else or changing. And eventually, after the, um, next seven years — so 10 years total in practice — of just this up and down roller coaster of, um, you know, trying to make it okay, investing everything, I went to Pankey four times, trying to tell myself how much I loved it, just really realizing that, uh, it wasn’t filling my cup and it wasn’t making me happy.

Dr. Laura Brenner: And, um, getting an ultimatum from my husband — he actually gave me permission when he said, "We can’t do this anymore. You need to sort it out. I don’t care what we have to do. Let’s make a change." And, um, ultimately I needed to give myself that permission. And 10 years after starting in dental practice, I found a way to, um, leave. And I left dentistry completely. Um, and then I, uh, years later — took me six more years — to really give myself permission to pursue career coaching for other dentists who were experiencing similar things that I was. In 2000, from 2004 to 2011 in my career, nobody was talking about this stuff, and I had zero support. So it was, uh, very exciting for me to say, "Let’s just do this." And here we are.

Dr. Eric Block: You actually, I, when I first, uh, talked to you, were the first person that ever said the words "life coach" to me. And I didn’t know what it was. So I, I asked you then, and I’m gonna ask you now — what is a life coach? And it seems like maybe your niche — um, I love saying "niche" instead of "niche" ’cause it makes me sound more intelligent — but what is your niche helping people or dental professionals with in their career?

Dr. Laura Brenner: Yes. So, a life coach is sort of an umbrella over any kind of — really, all coaching falls under life coaching. Because when you go and get your coaching certification, they’re gonna teach you that you can specialize. So you could do transition coaching, you could do, um, life purpose coaching, you could do career coaching, you could do executive coaching, business coaching, and all of those different kinds of coaching fall under the umbrella of the same principles that we use in life coaching.

So, a funny little fact that I’ll share with you, Blocky, is that — by the way, don’t you love that I can’t call you anything else now? It’s like you’re just Blocky to me. It’s just — sorry, Dr. Eric Block — you’re Blocky.

Dr. Eric Block: Permission granted. You can, you can call me Blocky forever.

Dr. Laura Brenner: Okay, good. Yeah, so it just stuck. But, you know, we, uh, the funny thing is sometimes there’s a little bit of a stigma about the word "life coach" — the words, I guess, it’s two words — the words "life coach" or "life coaching." And when I began coaching in dentistry, I felt like calling myself a career coach — well, one, it does describe so much more what I do. It is career-centered. And part of it was, my intention was to say, you know, this is really specific to your career. But — and also, you know, dentists, we are very scientific. We’re a little skeptical. We might think that life coaching is woo-woo or there are some life coaches out there that don’t resonate with us. So I deliberately said I wanted to be a career coach, not a life coach.

But the more work I do, the more I recognize that we are whole beings. We are integrated, right? You could use the word holistic — not in the weird woo-woo way — but holistic as in whole. And when we try to separate and compartmentalize our career life from our personal life, we, we, we walk around totally disjointed.

So what I’ve learned is that even if I’m career coaching you, this is about your whole life, because your career is 90% — I don’t know what percentage — of your waking life. It, part of us really uses it to define who we are. So it is really so much bigger and more profound than saying, "Oh, we’re just gonna get a job — a different job." There’s so much more involved in it. It really integrates the values of life coaching.

So, to actually get to your answer — life coaching, like what we do is, no matter what we’re helping someone specifically — the niche, as you love to say — what we’re helping them focus on is really about: coaches bring out — we partner with our clients to bring out the best in them so that we’re not telling them what to do, we’re not giving advice. We’re actually help — like, I always say to people, I’m not here to get you to quit dentistry. I’m here to get you to do what you want to do. And sometimes we need someone else to be that mirror or reflect back on us what we really want. And that’s what we do as coaches.

Dr. Eric Block: You said the word "client." That’s different than, like, therapy, where you’re a patient under a licensed therapist — someone that often goes back and, you know, into your childhood, or maybe they prescribe medications. What, in your definition, what’s the difference between a life coach and what you do and a therapist?

Dr. Laura Brenner: Yeah, I would say a simple way of differentiating the two, in addition to what you’ve said, is — therapy is about looking back and healing. And there is some level where — healing dysfunction. And life coaching — coaching is looking forward. It’s much more solution-oriented. The two work great together. And as coaches, we’re not therapists. So, um, you know, I — it’s, I think it’s really important for us to make that distinction and say, we are not therapists. We don’t help you heal your traumas. But sometimes just having that forward momentum and that solution- and action-oriented process is so important to help us grow and evolve and become who we want to be in life.

Dr. Eric Block: Do you find that some dentists or dental professionals, they’re uncoachable? And if so, is it just them kind of getting in their own way and, you know, they’re just fighting through that pain and they’re just gonna, you know, do what they’ve always done — just work harder, study harder, you know, get good grades like they’ve always done — and just work through the pain? Are some people just not coachable?

Dr. Laura Brenner: You know, I love that question. And that is the topic I submitted to your book. It was The Stress-Free Dentist, right? I shared that part in your book. So I love this topic because, as a coach, we really get to be nonjudgmental of other people. And — and by the way, that has been so helpful for me personally to practice non-judgment — or at least less judgment. We’re all human.

But so, when we think about being uncoachable, I think that can be a pretty judgy thing to say about someone. And with that — yeah, some people really are uncoachable, ’cause they’re not willing to look in the mirror, they’re not willing to show up. But I believe that so often someone seems uncoachable, but they’re actually not — which, double negative, not uncoachable — is that they are actually coachable. And the reason that they seem uncoachable is because there’s a misalignment.

So to give you an example of the people I work with, I love working with people who really like dentistry, but they’re burnt out and they want to fix it. And I love working with people who are honest with themselves and say, “I really don’t like this work. It’s not for me. I want change.” But you know who I don’t like to work with anymore and I won’t work with anymore? Are people who — they know the truth is that they really just hate this. Or they don’t like it, or it’s not for them — whatever words you want. But they’re trying to fit themselves — the square peg into the round hole — and try to make dentistry better.

And you know what happens? Because they know the truth for them is that they need to find a change, and they’re not listening to themselves, they’re not honoring what they know they need — they don’t show up for appointments, they don’t do their homework, they never follow through. And that can be seen as uncoachable, but it’s — I would say it’s really a misalignment. So I would invite anybody who feels like they’re maybe uncoachable to ask yourself, “Well, is the kind of coaching I’m getting in line with what I know I want my result to be?”

Dr. Eric Block: It sounds like how dentists often complain about patients, you know, that don’t show up. You know, they don’t do their homework — a.k.a. they’re not flossing or taking care of their teeth. And yet, you know, we get all upset. Often dentists aren’t, you know, being true to themselves. They’re not looking at themselves in the mirror and they’re not realizing that there’s a problem that they gotta take action. So I totally agree with you.

You also said something before — that a coach may not resonate with someone, or someone may not resonate with a coach. Is that true, where sometimes if you talk to a coach, they just may not be the right fit for you, and there may be other coaches out there that are?

Dr. Laura Brenner: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s true for anybody, right? It’s true for your — as the dentist, you’re not everybody’s dentist, right? And we’re not everybody’s coach. It’s so important to find someone that you feel comfortable with and that you trust.

And let’s also take responsibility as coaches here. We don’t have to take responsibility, you know, for the wrongs that other coaches that we don’t know in the world have done. But let’s say that we acknowledge that sometimes there are coaches who have, uh, you know, not delivered what they promised. And that’s just like in dentistry as well with patients and the dental team — it’s like, let’s each take responsibility.

So if I’m gonna sit here and say, “You may be uncoachable,” or “You may seem uncoachable,” I also want to acknowledge: you may have had a bad experience with a coach. I’ve actually way overpaid for coaches thinking that maybe it was the right program for me, and it turned out to be totally wrong timing. But I was trusting that coach.

But that doesn’t make me give up on coaches or coaching, right? So the more open-minded we can all be, the better. But this is why — you know what I love about what we do at IADLC — is we bring together different life coaches in dentistry so that we can all learn and grow from each other. And if we know that someone’s a better fit for someone, we can share that. And we can connect and help people find — you know, it’s not our — it’s definitely something we love to help people with is like, if you’re looking for a coach and you’re not sure, we love helping find that and create that for people.

But that’s why it’s so important to talk to more than one coach to see who fits you best.

Dr. Eric Block: Yeah. Earlier you said the word "umbrella," and that’s what I feel like the IADLC brings — is an umbrella of coaches with, you know, different specialties. You may be someone that’s looking for a coach that’s just a male. You may be looking for a coach that’s just a female. Someone who’s a hygienist, someone who’s a dentist, someone who’s a career coach. We try to have someone for, you know, for everyone.

But like you said, it may not, you know, hit on the first try. But at least you’re getting out there, you’re taking the action, you’re talking to coaches.

How much does it actually help to work with a coach? Let’s say — let me give you two scenarios. One is: I’m just really burned out, I’m depressed, I feel like I regret choosing dentistry as a profession. Or a second scenario is like: I’m actually doing pretty good, but I just want to get better.

Dr. Laura Brenner: Yeah. Uh, I love that because we could go from being in a lot of pain to just tolerating, and that would be a win for someone. You could go from just okay or tolerating to really good — that would be a win. Or you can be like, I’m pretty great — like, good to great. I know I’ve not read the book, but I think it’s a great title. You could be from good to great or from great to awesome. And coaching helps all of that, as long as you show up, trust the process, open yourself up, be open-minded.

And it really, really — you know, I hear some dentists say things like, “Oh, you know, there’s so many coaches. Everybody just wants to be a coach.” There’s a reason that everybody wants to be a coach — ’cause the people who have done coaching as the client see how powerful it is, and it’s life-changing. So that’s why they want to then go do that.

And we may see more of it in dentistry because so many of us love the coaching relationship part of dentistry with our patients, so it’s actually a good fit. Um, but I also want to say there’s room for more than one of us. There’s room for all of us.

Dr. Eric Block: Yeah. And that’s another reason why we have — we’ve created the IADLC and a membership where, if you’re interested or you already are a coach that’s serving dental professionals, we’ve created a community. Because you’re right — a lot of people that end up going through coaching think, “Wow, this is pretty cool. I either want to do this as a new career or as a side gig,” and coach because they got benefits out of it and they’re like, “This is so cool, I want to coach too.”

Dr. Laura Brenner: Absolutely. Why? And then you’re empowered — because the coaching has allowed you to empower yourself. And notice I didn’t say the coaching has empowered you. The coaching has allowed you to empower yourself. It’s all you. It’s all you, baby.

Dr. Eric Block: Yeah. And I, I said the word "side gig" ’cause you are like the master of helping people with side gigs or like even a career change. Um, tell me all about how you help people there.

Dr. Laura Brenner: Yeah, so, um, because when I was in practice, I eventually realized that the best move for me would have been — or was — to, um, leave clinical practice. And part of the — you know, and so many of us do this — we go from five days a week to four thinking it’s gonna help. We go from four days a week to three thinking that’s gonna help. If that doesn’t help and you’re still spending seven days a week dreading your life, uh, then that’s a wake-up call.

So — but I love the side gig because, as dentists, we are safe. We are conservative. We’re not gonna jump off the career cliff and just say, “Oh, let me try to…” Like, we’ve gotten to the top of the totem pole, and it’s served us really well, so we’re not gonna just throw that away. And this is why I love the side gig, because — just like you, I mean, you’re still practicing pretty full-time, Blocky — but you have side gigs.

That’s the beauty of dentistry: it allows us to explore other things while we maintain the safety of our income and our career. And we can — like, what other careers allow you to then go to three or four days a week and still make a decent living while you explore something else and build that side gig up and slowly decrease your main gig so that dentistry suddenly becomes your side gig? And then ultimately, if you want, you can stay there or you can phase it out. But it’s just the best vehicle for the safe, rational, logical people that we are as dentists.

So everyone I know who’s — I would say 95% of the people I know who’ve had any sort of career pivot, whether it’s a total change or just changing the way you practice — it’s been through a side gig. So that’s what I teach and I help people start them.

Dr. Eric Block: Does that come from within the clients where, you know, you’re working through what they’re going through and you find out — and they find out — maybe they just want to leave dentistry completely? Or they thought they did, but they still want to stay in, but they’re just looking for, you know, some other avenues or some other things to do?

Dr. Laura Brenner: Yeah, that’s part of the process. So people often think that, “Oh, I’m just gonna say I want a side gig, and then I’ll reach out to Laura and she’ll tell me a list of things that I could do for extra income.” And I don’t work that way because, uh, if that worked, we would already have people doing that. Everybody would be doing that.

What really works is getting to know who you are and what you want. So even taking — um, you know, Vera Marks, she’s my executive assistant, who is one of my clients — and she learned through our work together that she really thrives on having variety. And she was very, very unhappy in dentistry. She’s been doing it for a long time and she just felt like it was creating so much anxiety and stress for her. So her initial intent was to, uh, find a new career.

Dr. Laura Brenner: So over the time of all of our work together, she really tried a lot of different things, really got to know herself with, um, really — you know, I like to help people explore without it costing them a lot of time and money. And she just jumped right in and did it. And she learned so much about herself along the way. She ended up offering to be my assistant — and she’s so much more than that. And that was a side gig that she got.

And then she found this nonclinical side gig that is perfectly suited to her — mentoring other dentists. And she had an opportunity to go full-time in her nonclinical job, and she had to really think long and hard about it, ’cause that was her initial intent. Well, along the way she found this amazing associateship that’s better than any other clinical job she’s ever had.

Dr. Laura Brenner: And she realized one thing about herself: she loves the variety. And so now she’s doing two days a week clinically, two days a week in her nonclinical job, and then, you know, about 30 hours a month side gig helping me. And she’s loving life. She’s happy. She doesn’t feel like she has to need — and by the way, her income’s great. Like, it’s working for her. And she’s even said that it’s actually more than when she was just doing one thing.

So there’s so many myths in that, that we want to dispel, and that’s why I share her story.

Dr. Eric Block: Yeah. And she’s just probably a lot happier. People always ask me, you know, why you’re always doing these other things or these new things and what it is, you know, within me that wants to do what I do. And I think a lot of it goes back to, you know, COVID. Once COVID happened, it gave me the time to reflect. And before COVID, all I knew was dentistry — just clinical dentistry. That’s all I knew.

And then after COVID, I started thinking about doing other things and I took action and started doing them. And like you said about Vera and a lot of your other clients is, I love the variety. I love — now I love dentistry more because I have all these other things going on, and I enjoy being a dentist more. I enjoy going to work. I don’t dread going into work anymore like I used to. So, you know, to me that word variety hits home.

Laura, let’s, let’s wrap this baby up and tell us where we can find out more about what you’re up to — and then just a last little tidbit of advice for the young dental professionals out there.

Dr. Laura Brenner: Okay. So let’s start with where you can find me. I do have a guide that I would love to share with you — I’ll give you the link, Blocky — that is Six Reasons You’re Burnt Out in Your Dental Career. And I wanna share that with your audience.

You can also find me on Facebook — I have a private Facebook group called Dentist Side Gigs. I’m @drlolabees on Instagram. And if you wanna find my website, the best way to find it — the most fun way to find it — is to just Google 10 Reasons Your Dentist Probably Hates You Too. And that is the blog that started it all.

And your last question was — you wanted a piece of advice. Say that question again?

Dr. Eric Block: Just advice for the young dental professionals out there.

Dr. Laura Brenner: Yeah. Start with you. Stop looking outside of yourself for the answers for success. Yes, it’s important to take CE so you can improve your skills and your practice, and it’s important to work on your leadership and your business skills. But all of that starts with you. How are you talking to yourself? How are you choosing to see the world? Because you, with your attitude, your perception, your beliefs, create your reality. So start with you.

Dr. Eric Block: It’s awesome. 

Dr. Laura Brenner: You deserve it.

Dr. Eric Block: And if you’re looking to become a life coach or a coach and help dentists or dental professionals, or you need the help of a coach, check out the iadlc.com. You can check out our website and you can also check out our Facebook page. And we’re here to help. And Laura, just thank you so much for joining us. Such a pleasure to have you on again.

Dr. Laura Brenner: Always a pleasure. Thanks, Blocky.

Dr. Eric Block: Thanks again for listening to the Stress-Free Dentist Podcast. And don’t hesitate to get in touch with me at @ thestressfreedentist.com  And if you haven’t already, please subscribe on your favorite platform and leave us a review. Until the next episode, I’m Dr. Eric Block, the Stress-Free Dentist.